Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast

Episode 11 featuring Scott Stork

Kyle: Welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It’s a podcast with Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team.

My name is Kyle Luetters; I am joined by Danton Troyer. And, Danton, on this episode, someone that we’ve gotten to know here as of late, we’ve been able to work together a bit, is Scott Stork, an estate planning attorney with Polaris Law Group here in the St. Louis area. And I thought a really interesting conversation with a key moment that folks will hear about, about how he decided to truly pursue estate planning.

Danton: Yeah, it’s one of the most chilling and maybe motivating “whys” out there, especially for a career and kind of getting that going as well. And then talking about how you balance that with family and just the day-to-day that is life. So, a great, great interview with Scott and just talking about how he’s been able to achieve his success.

Kyle: And here’s our conversation with Scott Stork.

And welcoming to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, it is Mr. Scott Stork. Scott, welcome to the podcast today.

Scott: Thank you very much. I appreciate being here.

Kyle: This has been a long time coming. We met each other here a while back, had a wonderful cup of coffee at Picasso’s, talking shop. And then, kind of throughout our journeys together, we got to learn more about one another’s businesses and our practices.

So, you know, for everyone that is taking the time to listen to this, kind of describe your background, like where you came from, how did you get into estate planning, and how did basically, how did we get here?

Scott: Okay, yeah, absolutely. So, I’ve been a lawyer for longer than I care to admit. So, since 2002, which I think makes me very officially middle-aged.

So, I actually didn’t start out my career doing this. I never had any idea I would be doing this. I spent the first half of my legal career as a prosecuting attorney between Virginia and here in Missouri, and did that for quite a long time and did a lot of trial work and litigation and things like that.

And when I went into private practice, I had anticipated I was going to stay doing litigation and trials and all of the things that I really liked to do. But through kind of a confluence of events, I started to do, to dabble, I would say, in estate planning, which a lot of people in private general practice do.

And I had a friend that got very sick. He was 35, so he was certainly not old. He got cancer. And kind of a long story short, we ended up signing some of his estate planning documents the day he passed away in the hospital.

And that had an enormous effect on my complete outlook on everything. I realized that nothing that I had done up to that point with him made any difference as far as his family’s future or anything like that. And so I made the decision basically right there that I wanted to focus on estate planning and not do litigation anymore. And that was pretty much the change in my practice and I’ve been doing estate planning as the only thing that I that I do ever since.

Kyle: Yeah, that’s incredible that you have that story. And for a lot of people that get into business, especially entrepreneurs, there’s like a seminal moment that you really, that like a switch flips. And you may not become an entrepreneur right at that point, but there’s usually something, an event you can tie back to that really kind of flips that switch into getting you on the path that you’re on now.

Scott: Yeah, absolutely. And it really was the kind of the moment where, again, my worldview changed. I also realized I didn’t know enough to really do good estate planning for clients.

And so it caused me to join some organizations where I basically got a post-secondary, so to speak, education in estate planning. And it’s really changed the way that my partner and I practice and that our law firm practices. So yeah, that was kind of the, that’s my background and that’s my why of what I do.

Danton: Yeah. So with that, that’s a pretty big transition. And I know you have a family.

How are they affected or how are they able to support you through that?

Scott: Yeah, so it’s actually, I didn’t have kids when I started this.

Danton: Makes it easier.

Scott: Yeah, right. So like, hey, I can make a, make a shift and not a big deal. I think it’s actually made a very positive transition. So when you’re doing litigation and, and lawyers who do litigation and you’re off to different courtrooms and in different municipalities or, you know, St. Charles or St. Louis County or the city or wherever you’re at…it tends to just kind of be hair on fire, even though I don’t have any.

Kyle: That’s where it went!

Scott: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, exactly. So when you do that, it’s really difficult to do a lot of the work-life balance. One of the things that being kind of full-time in estate planning and having a more steady clientele and a cadence to how we plan with people has actually been to make it easier to really have that work-life balance. And that was something that was really important to my partner, Ray, and I because we both have young kids now and families, is how can we make sure that not only we have work life balance, but everybody that we work with has the same. So it’s really informed and shaped how we have developed our law firm.

Kyle: You, you mentioned Ray and I want you to – we’ve been talking about you – now talk about Polaris as a firm, so describe, you’ve mentioned Ray…give us the lay of the land of the firm. I know you guys are growing. We were able to go to you guys’ open house late last year, which was a wonderful thing. it’s a beautiful facility. But tell us a little bit about the firm as it sits today and maybe a little bit where it started. Cause those are always a good story.

Scott: Yeah, it started with me. 2013 it was basically me striking out on my own in about a 1,500 square feet office in St. Charles County. And it was kind of just trying to start getting clients. Right. And it’s grown steadily over the years.

So my partner and I both were in the St. Charles County prosecutor’s office back in the mid two thousands, and we’d been friends for a long time. I started my estate planning firm and for the first four years or so it was me and an assistant. And then Ray and I complement each other very well, as hopefully lots of teams do. He’s strong in areas that I’m weak in and vice versa.

And so we joined up in 2017 after about a year of talking about whether or not it would make sense, and started Polaris in St. Charles off of I-70. And we have grown our practice over the years and brought on staff and things like that. Our practice is a little bit different than a lot of estate planning firms. We aren’t kind of a transactional type of firm. So we have ongoing relationships just like you all do with, with clients where we keep their plans up-to-date and make sure that they still work. And so that’s for us, we have about 350 ongoing clients on that program.

And it also caused us at the beginning of this year, as you talked about, to open a second location in Creve Coeur so that we can increase the amount of people that we’re able to help, and it’s increased the amount of staff that we’ve got. So we’ve got about 10 people currently in our firm plus the two of us, so over the two locations, that’s kind of our setup right now.

Kyle: Very neat.

Danton: Yeah. What would you say, I mean 2013 wasn’t that long ago, and going from a one-man-show to 10 people to two locations…what would you say is the biggest driver of being able to do that?

Scott: Um, the biggest driver…So most law firms aren’t run like the businesses that they are. And so, lawyers tend to, we aren’t trained – just like most other people – on how to run a business. I joined a coaching program a couple of years ago, three years ago now, we joined and that’s been really instrumental in finding weak spots within the firm. You know, one of the reasons that we have so many staff is because we have so many different things we’re helping clients with along their estate planning journey and after they’re done. And so it’s putting the right people in place to do that because when you get a lot of firms where it’s just the lawyers who are doing the work, so to speak, you know, lawyers aren’t good at managing time a lot of times. And so,

Kyle: Really?

Scott: Yeah, right? That there, there’s your nugget for today.

Danton: We didn’t say it; wasn’t us.

Scott: Nope; nope.

Kyle: And I just was inspired to dig deeper…

Scott: Yeah, and so, you have lawyers who for whatever reason are in court or out of town or whatever, if they’re the only ones with their fingers on a certain case, it’s going to be weeks sometimes before they get back with clients. And we don’t want that. That’s not how we want the client experience to be. And it’s really kind of driven a lot of our growth, by having so many loyal, ongoing clients. And I think we’re able to give them a good product and a great experience -and we do that on an ongoing basis. And, and so between word of mouth and everything else, that’s kind of allowed us to grow the way we have.

Kyle:

Sure. You mentioned when we were kind of chatting before this whole thing kicked off, like, you know, getting your marketing, it was, it was going, and then there were some changes, and then now you’re getting going back again. It feels like in marketing, especially in small businesses, in professional services, it is so much about the day-to-day blocking and tackling and showing up.

Scott: Absolutely.

Kyle: Can you guys describe some of the ways that you all market to get the word out about your business in your chosen industry?

Scott: Yeah, it can be difficult, as you all know, because what you really have to do is – people don’t like to talk about sometimes, especially the things I do. So, when you’re talking about what happens when I pass away or if I become disabled or what happens to my family, those are conversations that can be pretty heavy. Clients don’t want to engage in that a lot of times, unless they’ve had something that’s really kind of pushed them to do so. Whether that’s, they’ve got a personal thing that’s happened in their family or to them, or they’ve got somebody kind of knowing that how important this is and pushing them to do it. And so when we talk about marketing, really what we’re marketing towards is apathy on clients’ parts. Because a lot of times they don’t know they need to do this, they don’t know that they need to do estate planning. Or even if they do, they’re, they’re reluctant to get it started.

I’ve had so many people tell me that they’re just afraid. Karma is going to give them, you know, something’s bad is going to happen to them if they go down this road, which is always interesting to me.

Kyle: Coming from a life insurance company. I empathize.

Scott: It’s the exact same, you have the exact same issues on that end as, and even on your part of, people know they should do it, but sometimes they’re just reluctant to pull that trigger. And so when we market, it’s making sure that we market in the right way to tell people this is an important thing that needs to be done without being preachy, right?

And so it can be difficult. You know, you want to get clients who buy in, and who understand what you’re doing, and have the same kinds of values that you do or that I do, and so making sure that that message goes out and making sure that it doesn’t get stale when people see the same thing on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever that is, keeping that fresh and in front of people can be really important.

Danton: Yeah, and you kind of hit on a couple of things there. I think a lot of people think about work-life balance and growth and not, maybe synonymous sometimes. So how have you been able to grow as well as you have, but still having that work-life balance, especially within, you said you like that across your whole firm, which again, I think a lot of people just hear work-life balance and think like, oh, you can’t be in super growth mode. You’ve got to dedicate one way or the other, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Scott: Yeah, so for me, I think one of my strengths is probably, I know what I’m not good at.

Kyle: That’s a good thing to have…

Scott: And that’s not necessarily something that lawyers are good at admitting. So, lawyers tend to be control freaks, tend to think that they are the best at just about everything. If you’re going to grow, that’s something that you’ve got to be willing to give up. And if you’re going to have work-life balance, you have to realize that you can’t be in charge of everything.

And so Ray and I both are very focused on putting, whether it’s a vendor that we have to come in and do marketing, let’s say, or other things, or joining a coaching program to help us understand where there’s gaps in our systems, and things like that…whatever that might be, we try to bring in others to help us on the things that we know we’re not experts at. I mean, I’m great at the law; I’m great at estate planning. I think I’m a decent business owner, but I certainly don’t have the answers when it comes to that. And frankly, even in estate planning, as should happen with most others, there are issues that I am not an expert at, even in that discipline, even though I do it and I do it very successfully. I know who to bring in, in any event, when there’s something that we need help with,

Kyle: Estate planning, it seems like for a long time, it wasn’t changing up a whole lot; now, it seems like with taxes in an estate, like every couple of years, we just upset the apple cart or we change something big. How do you adapt your business and your messaging in a way where that’s, I don’t necessarily like to say constantly changing, but we see it in our industry where we didn’t really monkey with the tax code a lot until 1986, and then since then there’s been about three or four major bills where a lot of these long-term projections may just get wadded up and thrown out the deal. I think that kind of speaks to the subscription service that you’re talking about a little bit.

Scott: Absolutely, it’s kind of a twofold thing. So our ongoing, we call it lifespan program, is designed with that in mind. So if there’s a legal change, so a great example, because on the estate tax side, that hasn’t been something that we’ve had to wrestle with very much for the last dozen years or so. It’s just, there’s not a lot of appetite, no matter what we think in Washington, to bring back small estate tax exemptions, but there are things like the Secure Act dealing with retirement accounts in the last five years over a couple of different segments of it that have really changed the way that people need to plan, and that we need to interact with financial professionals to make sure that clients are taken care of.

Our ongoing program helps with that, but also leaving a lot of flexibility in the planning that we do is very important, too. So for instance, during the last administration, we really thought there might be some changes on the estate tax side and we had kind of talked to clients and prepared them that this is something that we may need to look at, but let’s not pull a trigger too quickly until we get a little bit of clarity.

Kyle: Right.

Scott: I think there’s a lot of people, especially lawyers who, either don’t do this regularly as kind of their only discipline, or maybe who have a different philosophy who are just like, well, here’s where we’re at now; we have a little uncertainty. Let’s just go ahead and pull the trigger now without really knowing where we’re going.

We belonged to a pretty large estate planning organization. One of the things that we do in that is really try to look as a whole and maybe see where things are going. And then we can make some informed decisions on when we should pull triggers and when we shouldn’t. We’ve had a lot of clients obviously sitting on the sidelines on the estate tax side, and we’re glad that we, that we did that so we don’t have to unwind something that we put into place on a lark. And that said, if we can keep clients engaged and – kind of like the same with you all – make sure that they understand that we’re there to look out for it, then we can make some good decisions and not move too hastily.

Danton: So, you know, we’ve talked a lot about the office and work. You do have a family, we started talking about it as well. So, and the work-life balance, I keep coming back to that, but with three kids – I only have two, so adding one more to the mix – how are you able to stay engaged with work fully? I mean, it’s more than a full-time job, and I’m assuming you do some activities with your kids every once in a while as well. So, I mean, I think that’s a very difficult thing, especially for business owners and lawyers and very busy folks. So, how are you managing that with your partners and your team?

Scott: Yeah, so it’s been an interesting thing. I got divorced six years ago now, after being married for 18 years. I’ve got two kids that are younger, eight now and 11. But I got remarried, two years ago on Tuesday. So I have a 15 year-old stepson, and so it’s really been an interesting dynamic that’s caused us to move in between where both of our kids go to school and all sorts of things. So we’ve kind of had a lot of family, I don’t want to call it upheaval, but changes. I think my wife and I do a great job of managing those. We’ve got kids in sports and, assuming the weather holds out, I’m going to be going and coaching my 11-year old’s, or doing practice, for his baseball today.

And so, it’s really important to put in the calendar so that staff can see, and everything else. These are the things where I know I’m going to be out. I’ve got lunch at my kid’s school next Tuesday. So, we talk a lot about boulders in our calendar and rocks and all of the things that we want to put in for, whether that’s work travel or whether that’s important ongoing calls, which we’ve got too, and family is really the first boulder I put in. So if it’s vacations, if it’s practices, if it’s games, if it’s all those things that I know are important and that I don’t want to be scheduled over, I’ve got to get them in there so that my staff knows exactly what to do. And, you know, when one of my assistants wants to schedule something…

Danton: I like the boulder analogy. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, sometimes especially family stuff you can’t reschedule, some of those things and it’s also important and maybe sometimes difficult to communicate with work and staff and making sure that everybody’s on the same page.

So, I mean, we do the same thing. It’s like I have one calendar; my wife, she’s a kindergarten teacher, so it’s like, go to school and there’s less throughout the day as far as like the same schedule. But it’s very difficult to communicate that, and so I find it interesting, the boulder analogy, but I might have to start using that one.

Scott: I didn’t come up with that one; as everything, I appropriated that into our conversation.

Danton: I like it.

Kyle: We call it stealing best practices.

Scott: There you go; I like it.

Kyle: As we head for home here, and this has been a wonderful conversation, what’s the future look like? Where do you guys want to go? How do you foresee your business growing and evolving? Because, we’re in an industry and we’re at a firm and a team that’s growing and evolving. And, you know, AI is changing a lot of things, especially in professional services. So put your, put your dreamer hat on just a second, Scott. Where do you foresee the firm and your partnership going?

Scott: Yeah. So, Ray and I have those conversations quite often. I think where we foresee things going, moving into St. Louis County was a big step for us. You know, you bring on more staff, you bring on more attorneys, you bring on more overhead, all of those kinds of things that…

Kyle: That’s what Danton calls me: overhead.

Danton: Yeah. Once again, I did not say any of these things.

Scott: You have to make the joke first.

Kyle: Yeah, if he makes it first, then we have an uncomfortable conversation.

Scott: So, it’s been good. I foresee our firm continuing to grow. So, bringing on attorneys, as you know, assuming marketing continues to work, assuming relationships continue to work, and word of mouth from clients, and things like that. One of our goals going forward is to maybe move into different markets in Missouri. So we’ve talked eventually about moving into Kansas City and some of those things. There’s not a lot of firms who practice the way we do. And we think that it’s a really good way to do that and so we want to bring that to more people.

Kyle: Well, that sounds pretty awesome. We know that you can serve through a channel nationwide. But before we get out of here, there’s a mug here and that’s your gift for being on the podcast today.

Scott: I appreciate that.

Kyle: The last thing that we like to ask when we have guests here on the show, what wisdom or any wit would you pass on to the next generation?

Scott: Ooh, boy, that’s a tough one. I think if I was going to…I’ll use my kids as an example. I think the wisdom I would pass on to kids is when you know what you want to do, 1. put your all into it, but also realize that if you put too much of yourself into one spot, everything else is going to suffer. And I think that’s for me knowing how important it is to have a life outside of my business – even though that’s the focus – has been really important and it’s shaped everything. And so I want my kids to do what they want to do, but also leave room for all of the other things that are so important in life.

Kyle: Very, very well said. And Scott, thanks for joining us.

Scott: Thank you for having me.

Kyle: And that was our conversation with Scott Stork. And Danton, I thought as we were kind of debriefing a little bit about this episode, I really enjoyed Scott’s story, starting over East, prosecuting attorney, comes back over, settles into St. Charles County, goes through this…it’s a sad, but it’s a life-changing event for him with his buddy and getting those estate planning documents done, which kind of reorients the trajectory of his career and, and look what’s happened now with a couple of offices, 10 staff partners, the whole nine yards. It’s an incredible story to hear.

Danton: Yeah, I think the thing that stuck to me, just in that story, what he said specifically was it changes everything. And, and I can’t imagine going through that. And, you know, you’re already maybe dabbling in estate planning, but now you’re like, oh my gosh, this is what I need to be doing in life. And I think that also comes through with his growth and being able to tell that story and just being able to be passionate about it with that story. I mean, it changes everything.

Kyle: You know, Scott has also been real interesting and forthcoming about the challenges of growing a business, of needing to find the right people and talks about how he and Ray spent a year in conversations before Ray comes on over and becomes a partner in the practice. And, and then now they’re taking off and it’s very similar to a lot of what we deal with here, but also too, with what other guests we’ve had on the podcast deal with, is how to manage growth in such a way and, and staff for growth. It’s kind of a fine line, if you will, when it comes to running a practice of any sorts.

Danton: I think a lot of times you kind of just see the successful product at the end. So it was kind of nice to talk about that journey of how did you get here? And a lot of people just see that you’ve got a 10-person firm and everything’s great at this moment. But, you forget about starting as a one-man show and then how you got here and all this stuff that had to happen in between, and it’s a lot.

Kyle: Yeah. There, I think there was one time somebody said that the shining mountain of success, what’s really underneath your feet is years and years and years of a mess. But everybody always compliments the mountain.

You know, I really want to touch on here before you and I get on out of here, what he said at the end about really pursuing, in a sense, not to be too on point, but what matters most, and pursuing it, but not putting yourself fully into it to where you lose yourself. Like have a goal, have vision, have drive, but don’t forget the reason why you’re doing it.

Danton: Yeah, I think that’s a good summary and it’s hard when you’ve got very important things pulling you in very different directions. From we’re talking kids sports practice and, maybe a practice – one practice- isn’t that important, but it is and your kids will remember that. And, but also, he’s driven by that friend that passed away, unfortunately, as well.

So it’s not to say that his work isn’t very important as well. So I think that’s the difficulty of trying to juggle those two. And I mean, it sounds like he’s doing a great job, but it can be challenging, especially in that line of work.

Kyle: And we really appreciate Scott being here. And Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most is a production of Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team, headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. He’s Danton Troyer; my name is Kyle Luetters. Until next time, enjoy what matters most.

© 2025 Advisory services offered by Moneta Group Investment Advisors, LLC, 100 South Brentwood Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63105 (“MGIA”), an investment adviser registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”). MGIA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Moneta Group, LLC. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. This is an advertisement. The information contained herein is for informational purposes only, is not intended to be comprehensive or exclusive, and is based on materials deemed reliable, but the accuracy of which has not been verified. Examples contained herein are for illustrative purposes only based on generic assumptions. Given the dynamic nature of the subject matter and the environment in which this communication was written, the information contained herein is subject to change. This is not an offer to sell or buy securities, nor does it represent any specific recommendation. You should consult with an appropriately credentialed professional before making any financial, investment, tax, or legal decision. Past performance is not indicative of future returns. You cannot invest directly in an index. All investments are subject to a risk of loss. Diversification and strategic asset allocation do not assure profit or protect against loss in declining markets. These materials do not take into consideration your personal circumstances, financial or otherwise. Trademarks and copyrights of materials linked herein are the property of their respective owners.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed

Subscribe: RSS | More

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast

Episode 9 featuring Tim Hobart

Kyle: The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the hosts/guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Moneta.

Kyle: Welcome to another episode of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, a podcast with Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen team. My name is Kyle Luetters, joined by Danton Troyer.

And Danton, very excited for today’s guest, someone that you and your partner Travis Freeman have known for quite a while. It’s Tim Hobart with H&H Health Associates. You want to tell us a bit about Tim?

Danton: Yeah, gosh I can’t remember when I first met Tim, but it had to have been at least 14 years ago. And I met him through Travis Freeman, our partner here.

Tim has an employer assistance program. And so a lot of folks think about counseling services and he talks a little bit about flu shots, and there’s certainly the typical employer assistance program.

But also, he brought us in as a financial resource. And so, that’s been our relationship for over the years. And now it’s interesting to see, he’s, you know, gotten older. We’ve all gotten older and transitioning to his kids, potentially, some of the duties. It’s been a long time knowing Tim and he certainly helped me with my career and hopefully we provided some value for him as well. It’s just great to see him doing so well.

Kyle: Yeah, and so in this interview coming up, you guys are gonna hear about Tim, his business, how the business got started, whom he started a business with. And then probably the most interesting and unique thing to come out of the conversation was a class that Tim found after he went on a journey himself. And then it’ll kind of wrap up with how he has transitioned his business and how he has started to embrace more of what he’s going to do in retirement. So, it’s a great conversation and with that being said, here’s our conversation with Tim Hobart.

And now joined by Tim Hobart. And Tim, you know, number one, thank you for coming here to visit with us today from HH Health Associates. Tim, if you could just describe what it is that you do. It’s a fascinating service.

Tim: Well, thanks to all of you for letting me crash your podcast today. It’s good to be here.

H&H Health Associates is a family-owned business. My wife and I started it about 39 years ago now. Donna, being a nurse by background, would go into companies and do such things as flu shots, OSHA reg screenings, blood work, and anything on the physical side of the ledger.

Myself, having a background for almost 40 years in employee assistance services, counseling primarily, we decided to see if we could keep the marriage together and grow a company at the same time 38 years ago and decided let’s give it a whirl. And the good news is the marriage has thrived and so has the business.

So, employee assistance and on-site wellness to corporate America is what we’ve been doing for these many, many years. That’s in a nutshell what we’ve been up to.

Kyle: That’s a very interesting thing when you talk about it and describe, if you will, what is your typical work week like because there’s got to be some planning elements to this, there’s got to be some on-site elements to it. Kind of walk us through what like a typical work week would be for you.

Tim: So on balance, a typical work week for our nurses and for our counselors are, obviously counselors will be seeing employees of the companies we contract with for the issues that they’re bringing to the table, whether it be family issues, kid issues, stress issues, trying to balance work and home issues. Nothing that you guys would be relatable to…

Danton: Not at all (laughs)

Tim: …but nonetheless the counselors are busy with helping folks get things back on track in their personal lives, their being the employees and family members.

The nurses, lots of time spent on-site doing blood work, flu shots in the fall for example.

Kyle: Okay.

Tim: My typical work week has changed over the past five years because I’ve cut back from being the full-time CEO. And but it would be a lot around customer service, on-site presentations, management trainings, consulting with HRs on issues that come up in their world.

Danton: So as you said, you started this business with your wife; how did you guys come to that conclusion to start a business together? I mean, I can’t imagine starting a business with my wife.

Tim: I can’t either. And so you know that’s what we jokingly say, can the marriage last? Because we’re two different management styles, but we did talk about it long and thoroughly, and the good news is that we thought we were in both careers and our own work worlds, mine being employee assistance on the mental health side of the ledger and Donna being in the physical, the nursing side of the ledger, the physical – that these two had components and synergies that were helpful to companies. And so that’s how we came to the decision.

Danton: So what were you guys doing career-wise prior to starting H&H?

Tim: My background’s in sales and marketing, and I never wanted to be a counselor or a nurse.

Danton: That’s usually the case. The follow-up question is what did you want to be when you grew up? So how did you get the…

Tim: Well since I wasn’t gonna be a major league baseball player I guess, you know, I had not the skills. But in any event, I always liked marketing and sales, and management for that matter. You know I see what I do and what we do, is we’re at the intersection of an owner, a CEO, a company’s interest in the people that come in the door, employees, are okay.

They’re okay here and they’re okay here. Well, what in the world could ever get in the way of that other than life? And so that cross street is labeled “issues,” whether they be physical or mental health. And then how can we, the competitive side of enterprise, I love the marketing, sales, and management…the human side of our enterprise being, quite frankly, is helping people get things back on track regardless of where they are.

Kyle: I’d like to ask this question. You’ve had a long and successful career. How have you seen the services and the issues evolve and change from when you and your wife started this business to where you all are today and what you’re seeing today in the workplace?

Tim: Well in one word, technology. And another word is COVID. That changed the game worldwide for how we go to work or don’t go to work and work at home. And just the rethinking of everything transactional. A lot for the good, quite frankly.

So for the most part of our careers, very hands-on and on-site. So if you think about it, an employee that is dealing with an issue and they want to get some help from a counselor, primarily before COVID, would pick up a phone, call our office and say, hey I got an issue with my teenager and I want to talk to a counselor.

Fine. What office would you like to go to and what day do you want to come?

So okay, thank you very much. Next Tuesday 7 p.m. at this office.

I get in my car, I go there, I see a therapist, I make another appointment for the following week; do that for a number of sessions.

Kyle: Okay.

Tim: Post-COVID, well with technology and virtual links, employees can get services in their own home, in their own place, in their own space, at their own time, whenever, 24/7.

So that really is a godsend for people who were locked up and we all know that now that virtual health care is becoming more of the standard. I would say about 80% of 90% of all of the people that we helped were in person, face-to-face prior to COVID. Post COVID, it’s been flipped.

Although we do find employees do appreciate a personal relationship, a one-on-one face-to-face. There’s something about even in offices that have been virtual, people, we have found a number of people, have missed that connection, that community building, if you will. That gee whiz, I haven’t seen Travis in six months and when I get in and I see Danton and there is something to be said about community building.

And so now we’re seeing much, much more of a hybrid.

Kyle: Okay. You know, Tim, it’s interesting that you mention that. Of course, Travis Freeman, Danton, one of your partners on the team, you all go way back, but speaking of our business, we have a lot of clients now that will request specifically virtual options. And then if they’ve been virtual for a little while and they come back in, I don’t know about you, but the tone and the feel of the meeting is just completely different. Not necessarily wrong that it’s virtual, but it’s just a different tone. It’s a different feel when we have clients that are typically virtual actually come into the office.

Danton: Yeah, you definitely miss a little bit of that relationship building. As you said, that chit-chat before the meeting starts on Zoom or, you know, whatever you use, it’s basically right to business.

Which is great for a review meeting with the client, but you certainly miss out on just the chit-chat and catching up with kids. It’s just not as robust.

Tim: Exactly.

Kyle: And I want to touch on something, Tim, that you had mentioned – that you have slowed down a little bit. You’re no longer full-time CEO. Kind of walk us through what your glide path here is. Because it seems to me like there’s a change coming or you’re in process of a change. What does that look like?

Tim: So, I really haven’t slowed down, but I have made major adjustments. And then, like all of us, I mean, there’s gonna be a time where you’re gonna think, gee whiz, what’s my next chapter gonna look like after I work? Retire? And the synonym for retirement is unemployment.

Kyle: That’s one of the best ways I’ve heard…

Tim: Most of us haven’t been unemployed since we were teenagers probably.

Kyle: Certainly.

Tim: But it did begin, because I’m 75 now, so I don’t know why, but it was in my late 60s I started to think, what’s this next chapter gonna be for me?

I love my work. I love the people. But yet, you know, there’s more to life than working lots.

Kyle: I tell Danton that all the time.

Tim: That’s right. So it was, and most people really do need to work, because they need a paycheck, and that’s important and keeps the game going. And fortunately, on that side of the ledger, we were doing okay.

And it was more from the psychological standpoint of, what do I want to do, when I do, and if I do, retire? And so, I started to look for material, books, podcasts, anything that would talk about retirement, not from the financial standpoint, because that’s 99.9% of everything. Okay, retirement planning means financial; that’s your work.

Kyle: A bunch of numbers on a screen or a piece of paper.

Tim: And it’s really important. But there’s something else there too, is, well, okay, I can’t play golf every day. Well, I guess you could, but it’s going to get a little boring.

Kyle: You just burst a bubble for Danton.

Danton: Danton can do it.

Tim: It just ain’t going to happen. And on the other side, you’re not going to be traveling every week. I mean, maybe you could, but that too, there’s got to be some mixture of what’s up in lots of different areas of your life.

So, I could not find any books that were written that were looking at that psychological side of the ledger.

Happened to be at a school reunion, and one of my friends, a contemporary, asked me, he said, hey, when are you going to retire?

And I said, you know, I’ve been thinking about it. 70 sounds like a nice number, but I don’t know. And that’s about all I’m trying to think. And I told him, I’m trying to look at some materials, anything on the emotional side. And that too.

His eyes got wide, he says, well, you have got to go take this course I just finished, because he had just retired. At St. Louis U, that they had just started, and he was in their first class, called The Next Chapter at St. Louis U. And it’s a retirement course for newly retired or to retire people to look exactly at developing, if you will, a strategic plan for the next chapter. Not financial planning.

Danton: Correct. Right.

Tim: So, I thought, wow, that sounds interesting. I’m intrigued and I’ll go, and I’m glad I did. Because from that did come a strategic plan, just like I did when I started the business. I had, at the end of the semester, put together, as all students do, my next chapter plan, and I had looked at four different pillars.

The first pillar was, I really don’t think I want to retire completely. I’m too connected to the business. This means so much to me, starting it many, many years ago, and that’s my identity. What am I going to do?

Kyle: Right.

Tim: It really is. And come to find out that a lot of people that have had their own businesses, entrepreneurs or whatever, especially males, there’s a tendency for males to be much more connected to and have their identity with…

Danton: Wrapped up in.

Tim: Yeah, what have they been up to for the last 20, 30, 40 years? It’s really important. And to just come to a day where you say adios, thanks a lot. I’m out of here, it doesn’t work well and it doesn’t end well.

Kyle: Right.

Tim: So this class at St. Louis U, I’m giving a little plug for them, they start every fall and it goes the entire year. And it’s a once a week, about a three-hour session. Classes are about 15 to 20 in a class and there’s two different sessions.

And it starts off with an inventory of a Readiness to Retire Index, kind of like a Myers-Briggs or a battery of questions. I recall there were about 300- 400 questions about retirement, which ends up coming to what’s your readiness to retire? Or are you ready to retire?

So the psychologist that created and put the inventory together, when we met one-on-one after we took it, looked at me and said, Tim, you’re not ready to retire.

I said, thanks a lot, Richard. I know that. But I do want to step back.

And he says, well, fine; you can do that.

So that’s exactly what I did. But the pillars that I based my next chapter strategic plan on was work to create a project that would keep me busy, that I would want to go in two to three days a week to work on a project, which I am still working on five years later.

So that’s important. That’s one pillar.

The other pillar was fitness and nutrition of all things. I didn’t want to be a couch potato, sit around and gain a whole bunch of weight and think, gosh, you know, not good. So developed a plan where I would go to the Y three days a week for fitness and then nutrition. So in specifics, without boring you with all of the detail of what does that look like and how is it carried out, a fitness and nutrition plan. That’s the next pillar.

The other pillar was having fun and doing things that Donna and I always talked about we wanted to do. And we didn’t want to be 80-something and say, why didn’t we do it when we could? Because guess what? We can’t do that now. So fitness and fun was another pillar of that strategic plan. Yes, travel, but yes, there’s a lot of stuff right around our metro area we have never done. And we thought that’d be kind of neat to do.

Kyle: Do you have an example of one of those? Just out of curiosity?

Tim: How about the Arch? Since it’s been remodeled.

Kyle: Kind of the reason I like to ask that question, Tim, is because we are lucky enough in St. Louis, there is a lot of unique things to do. And I think when folks mentioned traveling and retirement, it’s off to faraway lands or even within this country. But that was interesting you said that, because there’s so many things that we pass on, maybe not a daily basis, but on a semi frequent basis, that we just never stop in and do with the busyness of life. So I’m glad you shared that; that’s cool.

Tim: Exactly. And the fourth pillar was spiritual. Wherever anyone is or is not, that happened to be important for me. So it was important to be connected to, for my example, our church with our feeding the hungry, and being a part of our church. So those are the four pillars.

And, you know, to kind of let you know, hey, I really, really, really did do this. This is my strategic plan; it’s a multi-page. It’s now four or five years old, but it’s a multi-page strategic plan built on those four pillars.

And I even put, okay, what do we want to do around here? Oh, I don’t know. How about let’s go to the Arch Soldiers Memorial, the Blues Museum, the Old Cathedral, New Cathedral, the ballgames, you name it.

So there are things that we have that we both like to do that we’re doing.

Danton: Yeah, that was my question. So did your wife attend the class with you? Or was that individually or separately?

Tim: She was welcome to attend, but unlike me, she says, I really feel okay about retiring.

And she did. She retired, stopped.

And from now and again, when the business calls for needing yet another nurse, she’ll certainly jump in.

But she didn’t have the problem I did with saying -I couldn’t just break away – I have no problem not doing this anymore.

Danton: And how long has she been retired then?

Tim: She’s been retired for about five years.

Danton: Okay. So about the time you were doing this course. Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. But she didn’t take the course.

Kyle: Right, she just did it.

Tim: She was doing well, too.

Kyle: You know, some of us take the path of least resistance. Others of us take a little longer. It’s okay.

Tim: Yeah. Well, I need that visual and a plan.

Kyle: And that’s what I think is so cool. And this is an audio podcast, but you know, literally, Danton, right out in front of us on the table, Tim has this actual plan. It’s in a folder. And he’s got this all written out, which is a lot of what we talk to folks about, too, is having their plan written out.

It almost gives permission, in a way, to do these types of things because you’ve planned for it. You’ve written it down. You said, hey, this is what’s important to me.

And these are the things that I want to do or I need to do.

Tim: True.

Danton: Yeah, definitely, having it in writing where you can reference them back is key it sounds like.

And but how you get there, obviously, as we just started talking about this, is different for everybody. And maybe different requirements where your wife was, she probably went through mentally a similar process, just not as in depth, and she was fine with it immediately. Whereas, you know, male or just different personality types, it might take some more time to really think through this. And it is a very large decision that you can’t really go back on very easily.

So I applaud you for finding that class. I’m, you know, interested in learning more about it. It sounds like it can be helpful for a lot of folks.

Tim: It’s really intriguing. And it’s already been five years since they started it, and I know it’s grown every year.

So it’s just simply called the next chapter. And the St. Louis U sponsors it.

Danton: Wow. So what do you see as the next chapter for your businesss, if you had the crystal ball?

Tim: Well, going back about now, I think 15-20 years ago, our two sons never expressed any interest in our business growing up. They knew what we did. Yeah, that’s fine. And they went off to college, got the degrees. Both had really, really, really good jobs at Fortune 100 companies.

And the oldest came to us probably 16-17 years ago and said, hey, I think I might like to kick the tires.

Say what? We cannot pay you. And at the time, we do not have company cars.

No, it’s for the long haul. I just want to really get a little bit more

We didn’t see this coming at all. Right. And so, Scott joined us.

And then two years later, his younger brother, same situation doing just fine out in corporate America, but again, the same words to him: we ain’t paying you this.

No, it’s for the long-haul, dad.

So they had come along and been really a godsend. And, you know, smarter than I ever hoped to be. You asked a little while ago, what was the major change I’ve seen in this – it’s technology, and it’s probably the same way here, as it is in a lot of places. They run rings around us on technology. And that’s fine. And they’re doing just fine.

So, the business over the past 10 years, they’ve been more and more and more and more involved. And then at the five-year mark, when I did step back, they were ready to jump in and haven’t looked back. And it’s just really, I’m grateful.

Kyle: We can tell in your, your body language here and taking a look at you, you are very proud of how this is all kind of laid out with having your sons. It was a surprise for them to come back.

Tim: It was a shock. Sometimes, just because of my humor, people ask me, Oh, your sons work with you? I say, yeah, they’re unemployable anywhere else. We’ve got to give them a job.

Danton: I gotta do something.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. No, they’re responsible, really cool adults now; doing well.

Kyle: I think that would be about the hope of any parent here. I mean, we talk about family business an awful lot around here with our clients and whatnot. And so we’ve seen it go very well. And it sounds like in your guys’ case, it’s gone very well with the transition and everything. We’ve also seen it not go so well. So that’s a godsend as well.

But it was just really neat to have you bring that up and kind of just see your face light up a little bit when you started talking about your boys.

Tim: Well, it is. We’re really proud. With our business, we deal with family-owned businesses over the years. And second, third generations can really go sideways, in fact, boy, mortality rates are pretty dismal, the further down the road you go. And you know that adage, well, they’re unemployable anywhere else, and they got to have a job here. There’s no faster way to take down a business than employ an unemployable adult kid.

Danton: That’s true.

Tim: Yeah. But ours and the other worked out well.

Danton: You guys did all right, then.

Tim: Grateful and proud.

Kyle: I think that’s a wonderful place to kind of head for home a little bit. You know, you’ve given us so much of your time here today, Tim, we appreciate it a great deal.

As a way to say thank you in a slight way, wanted to get you a coffee mug here, along with some goodies inside of that, for coming by to see us and, and just having a really neat conversation about retirement and how you guys do what you do.

And there’s actually a class on retirement now, which is…

Tim: Emotional side of the ledger.

Kyle: Emotional side, yes.

Tim: There’s hundreds of classes for financial and thousands of books, of which the guy next door has a couple of them. That are pretty good, actually.

Kyle: I don’t know, Danton hasn’t read them yet.

Danton: Shh…Ratting me out on the podcast, come on.

Tim: You have to read?

Danton: I’m asking for the audio to come out.

Tim: Or the abridged version. Yeah. Well, wit, wisdom, and What Matters Most. And, you know, I’m grateful for the relationship we’ve had with you, with all of you guys. and gals, it’s been really good.

And, um, advice? I would say if you’re anywhere near retirement or in retirement and struggling, whether you do a class or not, it’s, it’s really important to look at that emotional/ psychological side of the ledger and to have a plan.

Because if you think about it, you know, I’m 75. I feel like, okay, this is a seventh inning stretch; this doesn’t go on forever.

And as long as you’re healthy and you’ve got some wit and wisdom with you, you can have a remarkable retirement or partial retirement. Yeah, that’s different for everybody.

Kyle: And Danton, and that was our conversation with Tim Hobart from H & H Associates.

What a wonderful conversation that was. And, and what was your biggest takeaway? Cause I know what mine was. It’s probably the same thing.

Danton: Uh, yeah, I want to sign up for the SLU class. He definitely really saw value in that. And that’s a lot of the work that we at least try. Certainly, I would go out on a limb and say they, they have a much better much more, uh, defined process for their class. But those are a lot of the same topics that we are talking about with clients as they’re approaching retirement so we see those struggles.

And now to know there’s a class, or maybe if you’re struggling maybe a little bit more than others, to really put your thoughts into a plan outside of just the finances.

Kyle: Yeah, because I think so much, and we’ve talked about it ad nauseum at times, is that so much of the conversation with retirement is driven by numbers. But more often than not, in our experiences, the numbers are usually okay. It’s the, what am I going to do? It’s the very things that Tim was bringing up, it’s like, this is my identity. How am I now going to drive that forward? How am I going to basically go from doing something, basically, I’ve been employed since a teenager, his words, to being unemployed? How do I transition that mentally and emotionally?

And that, I think, was the coolest thing about the class. And then the other thing too was, I know I mentioned it in the interview, but he did perk up, he did light up a bit when he talked about this being a family business and his sons, who were otherwise uninterested in the business, by his admission had great jobs, Fortune 100 companies, but they still decided, they still felt this tug to come back and talk to mom and dad about joining the business. Which was really cool.

Danton: Yeah, I mean, to have a family business maybe unintentionally work out that great? Yes, it’s amazing. I mean, you don’t typically see that. Usually that’s a recipe for, I don’t want to say disaster. necessarily…And we didn’t get into it too much; I’m sure it wasn’t a smooth ride the entire time, I’m just guessing. But overall, to have that much positive atmosphere with your whole family. I mean, it wasn’t just the kids… the wife, everybody was involved in it. That’s a tough… I couldn’t do it. But it’s a very unique situation. And you can tell he’s just happy in the situation that he’s in now.

Kyle: And you can also see too, that that happiness, and I might be reading between the lines here, but we have some folks that when they retire, they want nothing to do with what they did prior, the company they did it prior with. I think for Tim, because his wife was involved, now she’s fully retired, sounds like she didn’t need the class. Like she just aced the exam, you know, without taking it. She tested out of the retirement class.

Danton: She went straight to the final.

Kyle: But it seemed to me like he was enjoying it so much because he got along with his family so well; that that’s what’s allowed him to kind of stay around two to three days a week. And really, in a sense, provide for a longer, smoother transition to the next generation. Because we know that transitions get messy in a hurry, whether it’s family or not, because sometimes the time frame is truncated.

Danton: Yeah, it sounds like that class really helped define, you know, he kept saying, his project through work. And I’m assuming the sons are able then to step up and start taking over some of his other duties that he had. And I think having that plan, you know, we said they didn’t have a plan, but obviously they started to come up with how this transition would work. And it sounds like so far it’s been very successful.

Kyle: Yeah, 100%. One of probably our most enjoyable conversations; that was Tim Hobart of H&H Health Associates. So, we appreciate Tim coming on by. He got himself a nice mug and some goodies inside of there.

So, you know, Danton, again, these podcasts continue to be a joy.

And Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most is a production of Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team, headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. And until next time, enjoy what matters most.

© 2025 Advisory services offered by Moneta Group Investment Advisors, LLC, 100 South Brentwood Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63105 (“MGIA”), an investment adviser registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”). MGIA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Moneta Group, LLC. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. This is an advertisement. The information contained herein is for informational purposes only, is not intended to be comprehensive or exclusive, and is based on materials deemed reliable, but the accuracy of which has not been verified. Examples contained herein are for illustrative purposes only based on generic assumptions. Given the dynamic nature of the subject matter and the environment in which this communication was written, the information contained herein is subject to change. This is not an offer to sell or buy securities, nor does it represent any specific recommendation. You should consult with an appropriately credentialed professional before making any financial, investment, tax, or legal decision. Past performance is not indicative of future returns. You cannot invest directly in an index. All investments are subject to a risk of loss. Diversification and strategic asset allocation do not assure profit or protect against loss in declining markets. These materials do not take into consideration your personal circumstances, financial or otherwise. Trademarks and copyrights of materials linked herein are the property of their respective owners.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed

Subscribe: RSS | More